resize large mixers

Founded in 1973, Soundcraft first made its mark with the launch of the Series 1, the first mixing console in a flightcase.

Moderator: GJC Designs

resize large mixers

Postby plupo » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:28 pm

Dear all

is quite a while i follow this nice forum , and now I finally have something that could be interesting to some of you.
I'm about to receive my new toy : an 8000 full size , 40 channels, that I found for a ridicolous amount, so i paid it without considering if was fitting in my shack or not ( I have beautiful Delta 24 ch now, about to sell to make place for the newcomer)
Anyway, to make it short: I've found no info if the mechanical frame is somehow modular or in a single piece: any hint on this ? I'm looking to shape it down to 32 channels, using the rest for spares or maybe boxing the modules to use the pre.
I know is a sort of killing it, but is the only way for me to save it for my use.
Thank for any info on this
plupo
Analog Enthusiast
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:45 am
Location: Milano Italy

Re: resize large mixers

Postby Jim Williams » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:33 pm

A lot of custom metal work would be needed, probably not worth it. Trade it for a 32 frame or buy another Delta and bolt it to the 24 you have. 8000 modules are wide, Delta modules are narrow so you fit more in a smaller space. A few bolts fits the Delta frames together perfectly, just get a new ribbon made by Digi-key. You can also look at the Venue as it had some nice stereo modules with width controls and is Delta compatible.

The 8000 sum design is a 5532 opamp, anything over about 32 inputs starts to mud up. The Delta hybrid mix design can take well over 100 inputs without that problem. I once bolted a 16 frame to a 36 frame and created a large console that sounded great and was extremely quiet too. Crosstalk will be much better with the Delta over the 8000, about -85 vs -60 db at 10k hz.
Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Jim Williams
Yacht Rocker
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:58 am
Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA

Re: resize large mixers

Postby GJC Designs » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:47 pm

The strength of the Soundcraft consoles of this era comes from the construction method used to create the frame - single-piece aluminium extrusions. The 8000 would have to be totally stripped to downsize it. The console typically has 3 heavy-duty aluminium extrusions that give it strength:
front arm rest,
meter bridge & upper rear connector,
lower rear connector.
These need to be cut to the desired re-size length. They are held together by aluminium end plates and self-tapping screws. I would not even consider cutting these as a DIY activity, but would get a professional metalwork shop to do the cutting. (Unless you have a very good way to guarantee a set of accurate cuts). The base panels of the console are folded mild steel. A desk of your size will use two or 3 panels - I just don't recall which. Again, use a metalworking shop to slice-down one of the panels to the new size and bend the edge to re-create the strength of the panel.
Gareth
GJC Designs
Yacht Rocker
 
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:39 pm
Location: West Yorkshire, UK.

Re: resize large mixers

Postby plupo » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:46 am

As first , thank to Jim and Gareth , their advice was very much wanted.
Second, I've understood now the mechanical structure of the 8000, sectioned with alu extruded parts combined on the long side ( the Seck was doing the same), so I'll reconsider or the "fix and trade approach" to rescue another mixer or making space in the room, even if to have precise mechanical parts and cutting is not an issue ( i'm a little more than a plain enthusiast, but i've decided in the '80 to make more scientific instruments vs the beloved audio ones)
To say clear I love the 8000 Eq , even if in some cases is too much, vs the delta (I have mixed modules in my one , both from the DLX and the Venue series) so i'll like to stay with it ( and the 8 groups too)
What is instead very interesting is the statement of Jim on the summing circuitry in Delta : thank to have brought it in.
The recreation of the virtual ground in front of the input transistor you say is giving more chances to the mixer, but now the question : is it just for the division by three of the loop gain or you think there' more to understand ( I'm talking to Jim hoping Gareth will answer too...)
Thank for the discussion: it will help to see if makes sense to go on on my all-discrete summing amplifier ( i love the mods, specially when they drive me to the old transistor place...)
Paolo
plupo
Analog Enthusiast
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:45 am
Location: Milano Italy

Re: resize large mixers

Postby GJC Designs » Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:49 am

Douglas Self designed the electronics of the Delta consoles. He has written several books on audio electronics, and in his Small Signal Audio Design book he discusses the development of various circuits, including the hybrid mix amps.
Gareth
GJC Designs
Yacht Rocker
 
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:39 pm
Location: West Yorkshire, UK.

Re: resize large mixers

Postby plupo » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:38 am

Now I understand... still missing his articles on Electronics World.
Ok I'll go and fin them

thank for the tip Gareth !
plupo
Analog Enthusiast
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:45 am
Location: Milano Italy

Re: resize large mixers

Postby plupo » Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:06 pm

just to close the topic:
The "big boy" has arrived and is absolutely too nice this way, so i'll not attempt to make strange things.
Not yet in the monitor due the fact that i had to fight against a fly case that was 80 Kg on its own....
Thank for the advices guy... my next post will be " a delta-like summing amplifier in an 8000 series desk...
plupo
Analog Enthusiast
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:45 am
Location: Milano Italy

Re: resize large mixers

Postby plupo » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:15 pm

This is an update for hard minded engineers: to resize the frame took me less than 3 working hours, and, to say clearly, handtools better than electric ones.
Now i'm a happy owner of a 26 channel Series 8000 and a friend of mine is now working on a system with an analog soundcraft front end.
A head-to head comparison between the soundcraft and a Neve strip (Neumann input, split box, blind comparison on voice, guitar tambourine, Dynaudio monitors) gave us a very clear picture: on flat are quite equivalent ( light vantage for Neve on high clarity) but the eq of Soundcraft killed the competitor for flexibility and sonic result.
Highly recommended !
Thank for your hints
Attachments
reduced size.jpg
end point , a nice 26 channels
along the way.jpg
along the way, before cutting
start.jpg
starting point
plupo
Analog Enthusiast
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:45 am
Location: Milano Italy

Re: resize large mixers

Postby AnalogStudio7 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:04 pm

Photo links not working.
AnalogStudio7
Lake Forest, CA 92630
USA
AnalogStudio7
Yacht Rocker
 
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:37 pm
Location: Lake Forest, CA 92630, USA

Re: resize large mixers

Postby plupo » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:28 pm

AnalogStudio7 wrote:Photo links not working.

something happened: is viewed by 17 but now are not available: I reload
thank
plupo
Analog Enthusiast
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:45 am
Location: Milano Italy

Next

Return to Soundcraft Recording Consoles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
 
Mr Patchbay sells patchbays, tt/bantam cables and more