Components choice for TS12

Founded in 1973, Soundcraft first made its mark with the launch of the Series 1, the first mixing console in a flightcase.

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Components choice for TS12

Postby El Gato » Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:08 pm

Hi,

I'm working on getting a TS12 back into shape. I've been reading a lot of old posts on what components to choose. Right now I'm not planning on any major mods. First off I would like to get it back to factory specifications. I just have som basic understanding of electronics but my soldering skills are getting ok. So far I've been fixing some problems and exchanged a lot of switches.

My plan is to first try to fix some faulty channels and thereafter maybe recap one whole channel and do some comparison tests with other channels. But I need to stock up with some spare components. I'm also thinking that if I start recapping then I want to put in as good capacitors as possible.

I would really appreciate some help with choosing components since there are so many options and I don't really feel qualified to know what to choose.

I'm thankful for any thoughts and input! //Dan

Capacitors

47uF 25V - http://se.farnell.com/panasonic-electronic-components/eeu-fm1e221/cap-alu-elec-220uf-25v-rad/dp/1219468?ost=panasonic+fm+220uf+25v

47uF 63V - What shall I go with here? ( Located at the mic input hot/cold )

2.2uF 50V - http://se.farnell.com/panasonic-electronic-components/eeu-fc1h100l/cap-alu-elec-10uf-50v-rad/dp/1855182

220uF 50V - What shall I go with here? ( Located at what seems to be the 17V supply for the IC's.)

220uF 6.3V - What shall I go with here? ( Located att tape send and Line in )

OP Amps:

Unless there are some direct replacements that can make improvements then I guess I'll go with these.

TL072CP - http://se.farnell.com/texas-instruments/tl072cp/ic-op-amp-dual-jfet-dip8/dp/1106015

NE5532P - http://se.farnell.com/texas-instruments/ne5532p/op-amp-dual-low-noise-5532-dip8/dp/1106092

CD4011BE - http://se.farnell.com/texas-instruments/cd4011be/ic-4000-cmos-4011-dip14-18v/dp/1106098

CA3046 - http://se.farnell.com/nte-electronics/nte912/transistor-array-npn/dp/1611569?ost=ca3046

Transistors

Shall I replace the 2N4403 for something better?
El Gato
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Re: Components choice for TS12

Postby wniebelski » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:28 am

Hi Man!
I'm happy that you want to do the mod on your console. The design of this desk allow to made hell a lot of mods in the circuity.
I'll tell you what i've done on my desk.
First replace all ne5534 and tl072 with OPA2604 (this is expensive but you will love the result)
caps C1 and C2 replace with 100uf 63V Panasonic FC (FM don't go that high in voltage)
C3 and C4 replace with 1000uf 35V and bypass with 0,1 or 0,01uf WIMA MKP or MKS (MKS is less expensive)
C44 and C45 replace with 450uf 16V Panasonic FM
c33,c39,c55,c48,c50,c70 replace with 220uf 16V Panasonic FM + add WIMA bypass 0,1 or 0,01uf
c54 replace with 10uf 50v Panasonic FM - NO BYPASS
C68 and c69 replace with 1000uf 63V with monoceramic bypass 0,1uf - that will take of some noise
The rest of caps keep the same value as it was in oryginal designe.
To lover the noise on the input of mic you can use bc560c (you will get a better gain too) but remember to place them other way around as the pinout is not the same as in original component.

In the master section do that same trick. All cupling caps 220uf 16v with 0,1/0,01 uf bypass + power supplay caps 1000uf 63V with monoceramic bypass and fader buffer caps 10uf.

As a result you will have the desk that is quiet and sounds as good as Neve, SSL etc with huge amount of headroom and lovely frequency response.

Ps. If fitting all IC with OPA is too expensive, just replace IC1, IC2, IC10, IC7, IC11, IC13.

GOOD LACK!
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Re: Components choice for TS12

Postby Jim Williams » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:41 am

I use 2SA1084 for mic preamp transistors and LME or Analog Devices opamps. OPA2604 has way too many upper harmonics, 11 orders at -110 db plus it's relatively noisy next to modern replacements. FFT's show that. LME's harmonics are all -140 db or less with 2.5nv noise.

Most of the el signal caps are removed. Large psu bypass caps are added. The EQ is fixed so hi mids sweep to 22k hz. Quality film EQ caps are used. Yes, it is a lot of work but it sounds like after your ears pop landing in a jet.
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Re: Components choice for TS12

Postby El Gato » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:57 am

wniebelski wrote:Hi Man!
I'm happy that you want to do the mod on your console. The design of this desk allow to made hell a lot of mods in the circuity.
I'll tell you what i've done on my desk.
First replace all ne5534 and tl072 with OPA2604 (this is expensive but you will love the result)
caps C1 and C2 replace with 100uf 63V Panasonic FC (FM don't go that high in voltage)
C3 and C4 replace with 1000uf 35V and bypass with 0,1 or 0,01uf WIMA MKP or MKS (MKS is less expensive)
C44 and C45 replace with 450uf 16V Panasonic FM
c33,c39,c55,c48,c50,c70 replace with 220uf 16V Panasonic FM + add WIMA bypass 0,1 or 0,01uf
c54 replace with 10uf 50v Panasonic FM - NO BYPASS
C68 and c69 replace with 1000uf 63V with monoceramic bypass 0,1uf - that will take of some noise
The rest of caps keep the same value as it was in oryginal designe.
To lover the noise on the input of mic you can use bc560c (you will get a better gain too) but remember to place them other way around as the pinout is not the same as in original component.

In the master section do that same trick. All cupling caps 220uf 16v with 0,1/0,01 uf bypass + power supplay caps 1000uf 63V with monoceramic bypass and fader buffer caps 10uf.

As a result you will have the desk that is quiet and sounds as good as Neve, SSL etc with huge amount of headroom and lovely frequency response.

Ps. If fitting all IC with OPA is too expensive, just replace IC1, IC2, IC10, IC7, IC11, IC13.

GOOD LACK!


Thanks for this thorough reply!
El Gato
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Re: Components choice for TS12

Postby El Gato » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:11 pm

Jim Williams wrote:I use 2SA1084 for mic preamp transistors and LME or Analog Devices opamps. OPA2604 has way too many upper harmonics, 11 orders at -110 db plus it's relatively noisy next to modern replacements. FFT's show that. LME's harmonics are all -140 db or less with 2.5nv noise.

Most of the el signal caps are removed. Large psu bypass caps are added. The EQ is fixed so hi mids sweep to 22k hz. Quality film EQ caps are used. Yes, it is a lot of work but it sounds like after your ears pop landing in a jet.


Thanks Jim, for also checking in here!
El Gato
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Re: Components choice for TS12

Postby El Gato » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:12 pm

This gave me a lot to think about.

The thing is I don’t think I was really clear about my intentions. Partially because I’m not sure about how much renovation and modding I want to do.

Step one for me is to get everything working as it should. I wasn’t really planning on OP-amps upgrades at this stage. I do need to get some spares so I can exchange old ones if they’re not functioning properly. The console is at a commercial studio and right now I can’t take it fully out production.

Most important I need help with the capacitors so I can recap some parts or channels. And when I read about it I was thinking that maybe I might as well install some upgraded/higher value than the originals if that can be of an advantage.

What do you guys think? Is that a good idea? Or are the capacitors you mentioned related to OP-Amp changes?


Jim,

I read somewhere that you suggested to change ALL- 25V 47uF to 25V 220uF. Is that an option or is it better to go more into detail depending on where they are located as Wniebelski wrote.

Wniebelski,

I have some spare channels. Maybe if I find the time I could try your complete modd on a pair of them.



( Btw. I have the version with FAME Automation. VCA controlled fader and so on. Does that affect any of your suggestions?

When it comes to choosing components I am i bit out on deep water for my knowledge level on electronics. I have a tech that might will be able to assist me a little when he is available. He hasn’t worked so much on studio consoles but do have a better understanding of components and circuits than I have. )
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Re: Components choice for TS12

Postby Jim Williams » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:01 am

When replacing caps I do a couple of tests first. I measure the DC offsets. I mark the polarity on the schematics for reference. Always twist any pots associated when you test to detemine if those offsets change polarity. If so, install a bipolar cap. If fixed, orient the cap the proper way. Designers were sloppy and assumed polarity was always positive when it's not.

If any opamps are to be replaced with modern chips, do the same meaasurements. Note DC offsets and polarity. If below about 5 mv, short out the cap, it's not needed.

If caps are retained (like mic pre inputs) I always use a small poly film cap as a bypass to let the air through. .01 uf is a good starting point.

220 uf on opamp outputs is usually safe, inputs depend on the impedance, you don't need a 220 uf cap on the wiper return of a fader. 10 uf across 100k ohms is plenty there.

That automation does suck big time, most have removed it with audio taper faders installed and VCA's removed. Bobby Summerfield also went to the trouble of removing most of the fet switches for latching hard wired switches, that also cleaned up the sonics. A THAT 2180A should be installed if the VCA's are kept.
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Re: Components choice for TS12

Postby El Gato » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:31 am

Jim Williams wrote:When replacing caps I do a couple of tests first. I measure the DC offsets. I mark the polarity on the schematics for reference. Always twist any pots associated when you test to detemine if those offsets change polarity. If so, install a bipolar cap. If fixed, orient the cap the proper way. Designers were sloppy and assumed polarity was always positive when it's not.

If any opamps are to be replaced with modern chips, do the same meaasurements. Note DC offsets and polarity. If below about 5 mv, short out the cap, it's not needed.

If caps are retained (like mic pre inputs) I always use a small poly film cap as a bypass to let the air through. .01 uf is a good starting point.

220 uf on opamp outputs is usually safe, inputs depend on the impedance, you don't need a 220 uf cap on the wiper return of a fader. 10 uf across 100k ohms is plenty there.

That automation does suck big time, most have removed it with audio taper faders installed and VCA's removed. Bobby Summerfield also went to the trouble of removing most of the fet switches for latching hard wired switches, that also cleaned up the sonics. A THAT 2180A should be installed if the VCA's are kept.


Ok, thanks for the help! I'm gonna look into this and see what I come up with. Got some work to do before I can continue on this project. I'll follow up later on.
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