Recapping TS24

Founded in 1973, Soundcraft first made its mark with the launch of the Series 1, the first mixing console in a flightcase.

Moderator: GJC Designs

Recapping TS24

Postby Leopold » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:32 pm

How much would would recapping a channel on a TS24 run? I know it depends on exactly the parts, time etc but what would be a fair price, eventually I want to get the entire 32 channels done but can't afford to have the entire board down so I'm going to have to go a few channels at a time.

Also is there anything else I should get done while I'm at it, like replacing the Alps switches?

Thanks,
Eddie
Leopold
VU Meter Specialist
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:25 am

Re: Recapping TS24

Postby GJC Designs » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:48 am

How much would would recapping a channel on a TS24 run?
Doing it yourself, or having it professionally done?

I know it depends on exactly the parts, time etc but what would be a fair price, eventually I want to get the entire 32 channels done but can't afford to have the entire board down so I'm going to have to go a few channels at a time.

Also is there anything else I should get done while I'm at it, like replacing the Alps switches?
Replace switches only if they crackle and scratch when operated.... No need to make work for the sake of it. TS24 PCBs are all double-sided with through plated holes and the switch legs are quite a tight fit in the holes, so it's not a job to be tackled lightly.
Gareth
GJC Designs
Yacht Rocker
 
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:39 pm
Location: West Yorkshire, UK.

Re: Recapping TS24

Postby Leopold » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:06 pm

GJC Designs wrote:How much would would recapping a channel on a TS24 run?
Doing it yourself, or having it professionally done?

I know it depends on exactly the parts, time etc but what would be a fair price, eventually I want to get the entire 32 channels done but can't afford to have the entire board down so I'm going to have to go a few channels at a time.

Also is there anything else I should get done while I'm at it, like replacing the Alps switches?
Replace switches only if they crackle and scratch when operated.... No need to make work for the sake of it. TS24 PCBs are all double-sided with through plated holes and the switch legs are quite a tight fit in the holes, so it's not a job to be tackled lightly.


I'd have it professionally done.
As for the Alps switches they are starting to go bad and some when depressed cut the signal completely.



Eddie
Leopold
VU Meter Specialist
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:25 am

Re: Recapping TS24

Postby rekorder » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:17 am

Hi Eddie,

That's exactly what I'm doing at the moment. Depending on how much time I have I take out 1, 2 or 4 modules, unscrew and clean everything, unsolder caps and switches (yes GJC is right: It's now fun to unsolder these. Especially the pins that are soldered to the ground-plane are tough.), clean the board and solder in the new stuff. I bought the caps from Digikey for around 160 Euros (for 44 channels and the master), the switches I bought from an Alps-Distributor here in germany for around 300 Euros. The problem was that they had minimum orders of 300 to 2000 pieces per switch. And I didn't want 2000 of the 4-pole switches so I just got 100 wich they had over... And the 6-pole aren't made by Alps, so I will have to order The C&K PHA from Digikey one day. But they don't do too much trouble at the moment.

Regarding the axial caps I have posted a Question that noone has answered yet. (just take a look here http://forum.analogconsole.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=962.

I guess to have this done by a tech will be quite expensive. Especially if you don't want it do be done in one run. I need around 4 hours per module.

And one different topic: Eddie, you once asked for the EDAC-pinnig. So I assume you have them under your desk, wich I don't. But I want to retrofit them since every additional Multicore make the situation double worse... Now I have ordered several EDAC's but I'm not sure how to exatly place them under the desk. So: Could you be so kind and take a photo of how your original TS24 look from under the patchbay? 8)

best regards

Chris
rekorder
VU Meter Specialist
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:32 pm

Re: Recapping TS24

Postby Jim Williams » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:50 am

It takes 1 1/2 hours to recap a TS-24 input here. Add another hour to replace all the alps switches. I pay 70 cents for those from Mouser. This requires a quality desoldering tool and the skill to use it. When done, the module should look like it was never touched after the flux is washed away. Modules done here are identified by the shinny silver solder rework over the original tin/lead solder.

Most of the 8 pin flex strips from the mute switch block are falling apart, I replace those with modern strips to avoid problems. Most of the common 47 uf 25 v caps are replaced with either Panasonic FM 220 uf 25v or Nichicon HE to avoid low end phase shift. Then you have those EQ caps, filter caps, opamps, mic pre transistors, psu bypass caps, etc.
Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Jim Williams
Yacht Rocker
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:58 am
Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA

Re: Recapping TS24

Postby Leopold » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:44 pm

rekorder wrote:Hi Eddie,


And one different topic: Eddie, you once asked for the EDAC-pinnig. So I assume you have them under your desk, wich I don't. But I want to retrofit them since every additional Multicore make the situation double worse... Now I have ordered several EDAC's but I'm not sure how to exatly place them under the desk. So: Could you be so kind and take a photo of how your original TS24 look from under the patchbay? 8)

best regards

Chris


I'll try to take a pic of this when I'm back at the studio. Thanks for all the info.

Eddie
Leopold
VU Meter Specialist
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:25 am

Re: Recapping TS24

Postby Ilari » Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:00 am

Hi,
I have few questions about recapping my ts-24 and I didn't want to start a new topic so I'll write to this old one that I found.

First of all I bought my ts-24 year ago for a fair price and everything works well. But I have no idea of if it has been recapped or not, and recently I have noticed that the desk has got a bit noisier than it was when I bought it. I have decided to recap the console myself, but I need to know that what would be the most important caps to change? And I guess there is really a difference between the caps. So if anyone can tell me the exact type of caps that I should use for a good result I'd be thankful. And what about the PSU, should I recap it too?

Thank you.
Ilari
Analog Owner
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:47 am

Re: Recapping TS24

Postby rekorder » Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:19 am

The most important caps to change are the Electrolytics. And after you have taken apart and reassembled one of the modules you will agree that it's no good idea to do a few caps and at a later date others. So: Change all of them in one rush! And while your at it, check if it's a good idea to also change ALL the switches as well. I would also suggest, to recap the PSU at first., probably also exchange the fans and do a lot of cleaning here...
And for the noise: Could it be that you connected some more outboard in the time from first installation and maybe some issue with the connection here?
And for the caps: There's a lot of different opinions on this subject. But it's agreed that low ESR-types are a good choice, and the Panasonic FC-series has become very popular for this kind of audio-electronics. Also some people suggest to use higher values for better low frequency response, but I think this discussed in several posts here, also a few lines above. Not sure, what to think of this...

best

Chris
rekorder
VU Meter Specialist
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:32 pm

Re: Recapping TS24

Postby jensenmann » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:50 am

Start with the PSU. Chances are good that noise goes down with a healthy PSU.
Jens
jensenmann
Yacht Rocker
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:08 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: Recapping TS24

Postby Jim Williams » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:30 am

Begin with the PSU. Replace the 4700 uf caps with 18,000 35V uf Nichicon VZ. Replace the 47 uf caps with 220 uf 25V Panasonic FM.

On modules, use 220 uf 25V for all the 47 uf 25V caps. Bypass with Wima MKP-2 .01 uf. The 4 psu bypass caps on the input module should be 220 uf 25V FM. Same with the 3 logic 47 uf bypass caps. I also add a pair of 470 uf 25 V thin case FM caps to the EQ pcb. I use 6.8 uf 100V nichicon HE for the 2.2 uf fader caps.

If you want to lower noise, use LME49740NA quads for the pan buffers. Add local .1 uf psu bypass caps. Use LME49720NA for the fader opamps. Change the feedback resistors to 4.75k ohms. Change the gain shunt resistor to 2.21k ohms. Change the feedback cap from 100 pf to 22 pf NPO mono ceramic. Add two .1 uf psu bypass caps from pin's 4 and 8 to ground.

If these changes are done along with buss amp redesign, the console noise should be below -100 dbu when the faders are down. Rework the EQ and line stages and noise lowers further. The TS-24 modified with these changes is the quietest large format console. It's way less noise than Neve V or SSL. It sounds very open as well. One no longer needs to bump up the top EQ, it's no longer needed as it doesn't darken the sonics like the stock console does.
Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Jim Williams
Yacht Rocker
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:58 am
Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA

Next

Return to Soundcraft Recording Consoles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
 
Mr Patchbay sells patchbays, tt/bantam cables and more