ROYAL OPERA HOUSE CALREC REFURB

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Re: ROYAL OPERA HOUSE CALREC REFURB

Postby Richard Lumb » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:03 pm

Hi,
Simple schematic seems to explain it.
You have 36 channels which ties up with the routing buttons.
Looks like the Sub group button would take the routing mix and feed to chan sep output
The aux's feed chan 33-40 when their sub group button is selected.
Auxes 1-4 can mix with routing 33-36
So either channels are in chan mode or sub group, mix return. Just like in line mixing on a music desk

There doesn't appear to be a stereo mix, so just choose a pair of channels you want as a stereo mix and VCA group them together so they track.

Does that make sense.

Richard
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Re: ROYAL OPERA HOUSE CALREC REFURB

Postby brianroth » Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:27 am

Gentlemen,

I have been reading this thread with interest, even though I have no Calrec experience.

I am curious...are the meters LED, or did they use the Borroughs "plasma" bar graph elements? MCI offered them as an option, but they required a HV power supply (250 VDC, as I recall), since they used an unusual neon gas design.

Vishay still sells the "neon modules".

Best,

Bri
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Re: ROYAL OPERA HOUSE CALREC REFURB

Postby Matt Syson » Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:50 pm

Hi Brian.
This desk and the UA8000s used a HP 101 segment LED display in either red or in a few cases, green.
As far as I know only a very few Calrec desks used the gas plasma displays. I can think of one desk only (might have been one of a pair for the same customer) but that was in test at the time I joined Calrec so there may have been a few more but on the other hand Calrec were not 'into' multitrack recording desks with the need for many channels of metering.
The gas plasmas use a 5 phase clock and multiplexing to get the display, with as you say about 240 Volts DC HT supply.
If the drive electronics was kept cool they could be quite reliable but of the several implementations I have seen the need for this heat removal was not taken seriously enough. One or two watts of heat in a small space gets darn warm!
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Re: ROYAL OPERA HOUSE CALREC REFURB

Postby sebastian747 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:16 am

Hi everyone..Sorry no updates for a while, i've been mixing an album...takes up time!! Thanks Richard thats great ill sit down next week with the info and see if that makes sense to me. I was gonna ask if anyone has a big block diagram for a UA8000 as it seems like a fair bit of the guts are in my console, we do have some reference drawings in the schedule but a flow would be good..Matt or Richard? Hi have asked Stephen Brant at Calrec but he is "out of the office " at the mo.
Anyway I have now recapped the PSU's and upgraded the components, i also did a simple rebuild of the surge protection....they all seem to get very hot in the plastic boxes so ive taken the board out and mounted them on some re-estate inside the PSU's recapped and upgrade on the resistors and they look sweet. Next week ill variac them all and post some pictures of where we are at. Its a haul but there is a plot coming on....IF I NEVER SEE THE INSIDE OF ANOTHER P&G FADER AGAIN!!!!!!

Brian as Matt says these meters are HP101's...they are orange all work ...in fact the whole console works apart from one channel.A tribute to british engineers/designers i'd say.
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Re: ROYAL OPERA HOUSE CALREC REFURB

Postby Richard Lumb » Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:46 am

Hi,
The Anti surge circuits should only be in circuit for a few seconds at power up.
If they are getting warm permanently the relay circuit must be faulty or dry joints.

Regarding UA8000 flow see attached.

Regards
Richard
Attachments
UA8000 Flow B&W.jpg
UA8000 flow
UA8000 Flow B&W.jpg (143.72 KiB) Viewed 4502 times
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Re: ROYAL OPERA HOUSE CALREC REFURB

Postby Matt Syson » Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:40 pm

Hi
There were 3 versions of the anti surge boxes.
One has a solid state relay and as it required only a small amount of power to operate would probably not get so hot.
The next had a real relay fed from 240 Volts with a 22K ? resistor which did get hot as it dropped the mains to 48 Volts for the relay.
The third version again used a real 48 Volt relay but had a pair of 1K5 resistors (series) but was fed with 120 Volts from the mains transformer centre tap which greatly reduced the heat dissipated in the box.
The Caps (47uF 63 Volt) were typically 85 centigrade types so with hindsight were quite likely to fail relatively quickly.
A suitable NTC resistor with perhaps a relay fed with DC from the supply output to 'short' the NTC may be the best solution nowadays.
The internal boxes were of course necessary for safety but hastened the demise of the internal circuitry (principally the capacitor).
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Re: ROYAL OPERA HOUSE CALREC REFURB

Postby sebastian747 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:03 pm

Hey guys ...been a while trying to fit console refit between recording and mixing work, anyway here is where im at. I have reworked the surge units (version3 i think) on the PSU's upgraded the caps to 130'C over kill maybe but if u want it to last a while...replaced the 1k5's and taken the whole unit out of them boxes to help disperse any heat....dunno where it came from cuz i cant get it hot even under load...click! relay works great. I open mounted then board on small 25mm pillers...so far as saftey goes I can't really see a problem..if someone opens these units while powered up then i guess they are qualified to do so....or really stupid if not.
Recapped all the PSU's to see if that ripple could be got down and then onto the Vari-ac, and then a dummy load ...all good and no ripple or noise apart from a small amount of noise on the Phantom PSU...noise floor around 67db. PAT tested the lot all good but fail on the Phantom due to no earth coupling to chasis....it looked like it had bee done for a reason...hmmmm ???well ive re connected it and passed the PAT.
Next job is to pull the M&M Patch bays apart...stunning wire work, but covered in shit, so a good hoover and then removal of the bay strips so i can put them in an Ultra sonic bath...a very big one. I should be able to bath them all in about one hit, or maybe two, this will leave them spotless.
Beyond this the real work of creating a mix bus, channel pans, phantom switching center section, mix inserts all begins. Ive decided to build a true stereo bus into the board...more work but it can be done, re working the group pans to the channel should be fairly straight forward and for the phantom switching i have got a old SSL buffer card which will be mounted above the patch bays for remote switching of 48v...lots to do still but its getting there.
Attachments
IMG_0787.jpg
Anti surge cards
IMG_0786.jpg
SSL 48v buffer
IMG_0785.jpg
reworked psu
IMG_0783.jpg
Patch bays pulled for a bath
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Re: ROYAL OPERA HOUSE CALREC REFURB

Postby sebastian747 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:03 pm

Today was full on...hours spent taking apart the patch hoovering it all and general prep for the Ultra sonic tub, but after a slogg we got there..dragged the whole set of bays outside along with our massive Ultra sonic bath...spent ages working out the correct mixture of water to Aquasolv and then dunked the bays in. Its a bit like jumping out of a plane with a parachute...youre instincts tell you its all wrong but you know the results will be worth it. 30 mins de-gas, then two 30 min clean cycles should do it. Once the bays have been in the tub its really important to get shot of the water asap...so rinse with hot water, blast of hot air, then soak in Meths, and then IsoProp will do it, ill then go over the bays with a bronze phospher brush and they will look like new...and give a great basis for good contact and a console that is happy.
Ive posted a photo of the New Decca 2 EQ, built by Neil Perry...10 years in the making, this is one of only five and its going to Mr D Gilmor @ Astoria. I posted the pic cuz its a nice thing and im using Neil's Work shop for the refurb...product placement at its most subtle. The other pic shows the empty Calrec being used as a posh bench!ttfn
Attachments
IMG_0789.jpg
Bath ready for some action
IMG_0790.jpg
bays being scrubbed
IMG_0792.jpg
Decca 2 Mastering EQ
IMG_0791.jpg
posh work bench
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Re: ROYAL OPERA HOUSE CALREC REFURB

Postby Matt Syson » Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:14 pm

Hi
As noted the anti surge circuits are in boxes as there was (is?) a requirement that voltages higher than 50 should be covered up.
It is suprising how warm a couple of watts of heat can make the inside of that box as it is completely enclosed. The heat should be mainly from the small resistors and relay itself as the 39 Ohm gold block resistor is shorted out and is therefore cold.
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Re: ROYAL OPERA HOUSE CALREC REFURB

Postby sebastian747 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:34 am

Richard Lumb wrote:Hi,
The Anti surge circuits should only be in circuit for a few seconds at power up.
If they are getting warm permanently the relay circuit must be faulty or dry joints.

Regarding UA8000 flow see attached.

Regards
Richard


Hi Richard dont suppose you could email me direct the UA8000 flow again I seemed to have misplaced it and cant se it here anymore.
Many Thanks

Seb
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